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 Post subject: Javelins
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:40 pm
Posts: 3
So yeah. I was wondering why Javelins incure a -4 when being used. The official rules in the SDR say becuase it wasn't made to be a weapon. My research into Peltasts proves otherwise? Would anyone mind clearing this up?

Also, I haven't bought the Codex yet, but I plant to when I get my hands on some money. It looks really impressive :)


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 Post subject: Re: Javelins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:07 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:30 pm
Posts: 469
I'm a little confused ... where do Javelins get a -4? In standard DnD rules?

G.


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 Post subject: Re: Javelins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:18 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:40 pm
Posts: 3
Yeah, in the PHB "Since it is not designed for melee, all characters are treated as not proficient with it and thus suffer a -4 on their melee attack roles." It, being a Javelin


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 Post subject: Re: Javelins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:30 pm
Posts: 469
Oh I see... they mean using a javelin as a stabbing (melee) weapon instead of throwing it?

G.


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 Post subject: Re: Javelins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:40 pm
Posts: 3
IDK, that's kind of why I asked... :?

Anyways, thats not really... realistic is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Javelins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:30 pm
Posts: 469
No I would say not. I don't see why using a javelin would be all that different from using a small spear (like the half-spear in DnD)

In fact historically, the Germanic tribes actually seem to have converted the Roman armor-piercing pilum (javelin) into a dual - purpose armor piercing spear called an angon or frankon, which in tern seems to have evolved into the ahelespiess or 'awl-pike', a hard core two handed fighting spear used in the Medieval and Renaissance period.

This description by a Greek scholar in the 6th century seems to imply the dual use of the Angon by Frankish warriors:

Quote:
"Suppose a Frank throws his angon in an engagement. If the spear strikes a man anywhere the point will penetrate, and neither the wounded man nor anyone else can easily pull it out because the barbs which pierce the flesh hold it in and cause terrible pain, so that even if the enemy is not fatally hit he still dies as a result. And if it sticks in the shield, it fixes in it at once and is carried around with it, the butt dragging on the ground. The man who has been hit cannot pull out the spear because the barbs have gone in, and he cannot cut it off because of the iron that covers the shaft. When the Frank sees this he quickly treads on it with his foot, stepping on the ferrule [iron finial on the butt of a spear or other pole weapon] and forcing the shield downwards so that the man's hand is loosened and his head and breast bared. Then, taking him unprotected, he kills him easily either cleaving his head with an axe or piercing his throat with another spear." [2]


Some links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahlspiess
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... =ahlspiess

Image
Image

G.


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 Post subject: Re: Javelins
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 1
Javelins as a Melee weapons..sounds good.

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